CCM's Next Wheelstander Build

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Re: CCM's Next Wheelstander Build

Postby stimpy » Thu May 12, 2011 7:30 pm

23t wrote:kill? This bike had the kick stand kill so I wired it up to the shifer upshift relay so that when I hit the shift button it kills the engine. Not for sure but that should be hooked to the coils, right?
And yes, got what you mean on how the Pete clutch is. This is direct chain drive to the input shaft on the rear so I'm going to fab a clutch pedal and linkage. With using the hand lever from the bike if I can. It's going to be tight at the front of the engine. Accel cables, brake cables, clutch cable and radiator hoses. That all will be close to the zoomie pipes. Plan is to wrap the pipes with header wrap so I don't need to worry about anything melting. But I've never used the stuff before so I hope that works.



yes the kick stand switch is hooked to the coil pack power lead . the igniton does have a heavy draw and needs the good contacts so make sure the relay is capable of handling the draw without melting the contacts.

as for the clutch the one on the bike is a good one , bu they do not like to be slipped as they are oil cooled and when get hot react backwards of a dry clutch and will not release at all ( they weld together ) and using the factory cable with a floor mount shouldn't be too hard to fab , the only problem is figuring out the lever ratio as it won't need much in pressure . and doesn't have much movement

. as for the header wrap if done right ( nigce and tight and overlapping ) it will keep the heat in the pipes and out of the engine compartment , I have a few pontiacs were we use it to run oil lines thru the headers to a aux filter unit up front and it prevents the rubber in the braided hoses from getting cooked from the heat and some times the hoses lay up against the headers . you want a brand that has a high silica content to it as thats what prevents the heat transfer . the cheap stuff your better off wrapping the pipes with cotton gauze . as it will last longer .. ( don't do that )


I accidently hit the quote button instead of the edit button when I originally posted it ..
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Re: CCM's Next Wheelstander Build

Postby stimpy » Fri May 13, 2011 12:25 am

I was think more towards the same lines there gorrilli , put the electric and cables in a steel/aluminum pipe and wrap it to reflect the heat away from them , you would use less of the $$$$ wrap . or if your real savy put a aluminum sheild on that pipe with a 1/2 air buffer and that will keep the controls in the pipe cooler .
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Re: CCM's Next Wheelstander Build

Postby 23t » Fri May 13, 2011 4:41 am

Thanks for the info and idea's. As far as room in front of the engine, my thinking was that header wrap would take up less space than heat shields. But I will consider shields as the build goes along. The clutch cable is just a hair short so I would have to add some linkage. But now you have me thinking about that Pete clutch setup. That would be the best setup if I can configure the mount needed.

Clutch welding?? :shock: Sure don't want that!! But I'm not going to run this cart hard. My idea is to set it up like the 340 cart, with the weighted rear wheelie bars. And hopefully the will handle like the 340.
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Re: CCM's Next Wheelstander Build

Postby stimpy » Fri May 13, 2011 9:51 pm

with the powerband that motor has you won't need the weight inthe wheelie bars , beleive me as your really multiplying the ratios with your transmission , those sport bikes weigh 500-600 pounds without the rider and the motor is forward of the centerline and you still can take one walking ( puttting it verticle) with out yanking on the bars .. the clutch pedal Idea would be better IMo as your hands will be full handing the short wheel base and shifter switches . if I remember right the pedal on my pete was a 15" long and had a 3" cam on it to pull the cable under the floor to pull the clutch cable 5" but thats with a 3200 pound pull pressure plate . ( try to find a local driver to see if you can look at the set up for a beter idea on the ratios ) because the handle bar lever only pulls the cable about 3/4 of a inch ) .
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Re: CCM's Next Wheelstander Build

Postby 23t » Sat May 14, 2011 3:19 am

Ratio's? 17t sprocket on the output, to 13t on the input, 13 to 1 rear gear with 20" tall tire. I not good at math so this is a trial and error thing. All I know is I / cart can handle 50mph and that the speed I would like to be. Torque should not be a problem.

And what makes the clutch deal a little easier to figure is all brake pedals are setup with a cam type pull. So I just need to look at those closer.
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Re: CCM's Next Wheelstander Build

Postby stimpy » Sat May 14, 2011 9:34 pm

the final ratio is 11.33:1 as the 17 to 13 makes it a over drive (.876:1 ) then you cutting it back down . with
the rear gears. the tire diameter is about the same as the dia the bike used . so you take the toque figure and multiply it by the gear ratio if the bikes transmission( each gear has a different ratio ) X 11.33 ( final drive ratio ) and thats the foot pounds the tire tread will see and don't be suprised if you see numbers in the low thousands of foot pounds for the lower gears . if they are higher then the weight of the cart then it will lift the front with ease or blow the tires off .

example in first gear if it has a ratio of 6:1 then multiply that by 11.33 ( secondary drive ) that will give you a multiplication rate of 67.98 ( final drive ) X 57.9 foot pound at 9500 rpm =3941.48foot pound the wheels ( 1970.74per wheel ) will see at 9500 rpm of engine speed .hmm not bad .. but lower engine speeds will give you a lower torque rating and the motorcycle engine the torque bands are often higher up in the higher rpm ranges and are about 1/2 or a 1/4 of that at 2500 rpm . hope you have some good slicks as your going to need them . your doing the right thing as the top end of that bike is around 135 mph , so it should put you in the 45-60 mph range at redline on the cart

You know now after crunching the numbers I shouldn't be looking at this any more as its kind of like having a box of donuts and a gallon of milk when your hungry .. kind of dangerous for the donuts ..

I boo boo'd the od math the first time I went thru this as I came up with almost 6000 foot pounds and after thinking it looked unrealistic so i had to check some transmission books .
Last edited by stimpy on Sat May 14, 2011 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CCM's Next Wheelstander Build

Postby stimpy » Sat May 14, 2011 9:36 pm

oh and I want to rig your helmet for a microphone to record what you say the first time out as I know its gonna be something like Oh sh.......... LOL :mrgreen:
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Re: CCM's Next Wheelstander Build

Postby 23t » Sun May 15, 2011 3:47 am

stimpy wrote:oh and I want to rig your helmet for a microphone to record what you say the first time out as I know its gonna be something like Oh sh.......... LOL :mrgreen:


Hahahaha!!!! That might be interesting!

Thanks for the number crunching stimpy. 45-60 mph, I can handle that. If I find it runs to slow I can get a 8 to 1 rear gear.
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Re: CCM's Next Wheelstander Build

Postby stimpy » Sun May 15, 2011 8:44 pm

23t wrote:
stimpy wrote:oh and I want to rig your helmet for a microphone to record what you say the first time out as I know its gonna be something like Oh sh.......... LOL :mrgreen:


Hahahaha!!!! That might be interesting!

Thanks for the number crunching stimpy. 45-60 mph, I can handle that. If I find it runs to slow I can get a 8 to 1 rear gear.



anytime , I wish I had a dynosheet on the motor and my harddrive for my recently deceased laptop ( B1998 -D 2011 gateway solo :cry: ) plugged in as I could give you some nice numbers froma couple of programs I have ..
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